The Parable of Lazarus

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:19-31

Summary of Argument:

The parable of lazarus describes a torment in hell but does not teach that the torment is eternal

About two weeks following his conversation with the young lady in the bonnet, our friend was at home when he heard a knock on the door. When he opened the door he was looking at two elders from the church.

“John,” said the first, who was the older of the two, “We would like a word with you.”

“Why, certainly, said John, “Please come in.”

Now, he was fully aware of the purpose of their visit, because the church that he attended was careful to ensure that all its members embraced its doctrine. As a matter of fact, he had rather expected them because he knew that the young lady would not hesitate to discuss their conversation with the next person she saw. He felt a bit uneasy, but he was happy to engage them.

When all were seated and coffee had been served, John was the first to speak. “Gentlemen, to what, or rather to whom, do I owe the honor of your visit?”

“John,” said the older of the two, “I will go directly to the point. We have come here to discuss a doctrinal error that you have unfortunately propagated at church. It is our understanding that you have made it known that you no longer believe in hell. Is that correct?”

“No,” he responded. “Scripture speaks of hell, so I do believe that there is a hell. However, scripture does not speak of eternal torment for all unbelievers, so I do not believe in it. The eternal fate of the unredeemed is eternal death, not eternal torment.”

“Yes, John. We are concerned that you have strayed from the correct doctrine.”

“Well, sir,” he replied, “If the correct doctrine is that all unbelievers will be tormented for eternity in hell or anywhere else, I have certainly strayed from it. However, I might add, I have strayed from it because scripture does not teach it."

“Would you be willing, John, to bend your convictions if we should be able to show you where scripture does indeed teach eternal torment for the unredeemed?”

“Why certainly. If you would enlighten me, I would be more than happy to correct my views, and thank you for your time and trouble. And would you will be willing to bend yours if scripture bears me out?”

“We have already been informed of your position relating to the torment of those who worship the beast in Revelation 14:9-11. We have chosen not to pursue that line of argument because that passage refers specifically to those who worship the beast and not to all of the unredeemed. But there are other scriptures that you may not have considered. Are you aware of Jesus' teaching about Lazarus in Luke 16?”

“I am quite familiar with the Parable of Lazarus. If I recollect correctly, Jesus was teaching about His own resurrection through the use of a parable. In that parable, a rich man had ignored-and perhaps scorned-Lazarus, who was a beggar who sat at the rich man’s front gate. After both of them died, Lazarus was placed in Abraham’s bosom and the rich man placed in torment. The passage does not specify the reasons why the rich man was in torment or what that torment was or how long that torment was.”

“That is correct, John. The rich man was tormented in hell forever and Lazarus was not."

"And where does the parable state that the rich man's torment was forever?"

"We will have to address that. The Parable of Lazarus is a parable that Christ used to teach of His own resurrection.” Said the First Elder.

“If I remember correctly,” said John, “the rich man asked that Lazarus send back a warning to his brothers, so that they would not end up in the same place that he did.”

“Yes,” said the elder, “The rich man could not escape from hell, and he wished to warn his brothers.”

“Correct,” said John. “So, the rich man carried on a conversation while he was being tormented. He was a disembodied spirit at the time. His body was dead and buried on earth but his soul was in hell…”

“Yes, and being tormented,” interjected the First Elder.

“And” said John, “he was told that even if someone were to be raised from the dead, his brothers would still not believe.”

“Exactly.”

“So, Jesus was teaching that some people would not believe in Him, even if He was raised from the dead.” Said John.

“You are familiar with the passage, then,” said the elder. “It shows the existence of a place of eternal torment called hell.”

“I believe in the existence of hell,” said John, “but this passage does not say anything about the duration of the rich man's torment, nor does it say that hell is eternal…”

“But surely, John. The implication is…“

“…And that is all the passage says. What do you want to add to it? There are supposed to be several passages that prove eternal torment, but this is not one of them.”

“The passage assumes that the reader will understand that it is speaking of eternal hell and eternal torment.”

“Precisely the opposite is true,” said John. “It is the reader who assumes that the scripture is speaking of eternal hell and eternal torment.”

“What do you mean?”

"The position taken by the doctrine of eternal torment," said John, "is that Luke 16 is the perfect picture of a sinner tormented in hell forever. Were you expecting to see that before you read the scripture?"

"Of course, I expected to see it. This particular scripture does not say specifically that the torment is eternal, but there are others," said the First Elder.

“The duration of that sinner’s torment is neither implied nor stated in this scripture,” said John. “Eternal torment in this passage is based solely on your presumption that the doctrine of eternal is an accurate summary of what scripture teaches."

"The church has always taught this doctrine."

"And let me ask this," said John. "What was the torment? What kind of flame and what kind of pain was the rich man in when he could carry on a lucid conversation with Lazarus?”

“This particular scripture,” said the Second Elder, “refers to flames but does not define eternal torment directly ... but there are other scriptures and read together they show that all of the unredeemed will be tormented forever, which is the same punishment as Satan.”

“Where are these scriptures?” Asked John. “And how do you reconcile it with Romans 6:23 that says the wages of sin is death?”

“I will find you several,” said the First Elder.

"I would like to see them," said John.

“And death in the Bible does not really mean death." Said the Second Elder. "It means separation from God.”

"Really?" Said John. "Where do you get that?"

"It's in the Parable of Lazarus. The rich man died, but not really. He was really just separated from God and sent to hell."

"So death means separation from God?"

"Right. Death in the Bible doesn't mean real death; it means separation from God."

"Oh, so the word for death in the Bible really does not mean death?"

"Right. It means separation from God."

"Well, the Parable of Lazarus says that both Lazarus and the rich man died. But Lazarus was not separated from God, was he?"

"No. Lazarus was not separated from God."

"So, Lazarus didn't really die, did he?"

"No. Lazarus didn't really die in the sense that he was never separated from God."

"And the rich man didn't die either?"

"So, neither of them died?"

"Right. Everybody goes to either heaven or hell forever, but nobody ever really dies."

"Well, if death is separation from God and both Lazarus and the rich man died, how come both of them were not separated from God? Is there one kind of death for the rich man and another kind of death for Lazarus but the same word?"

"Right. Same word. Different deaths. It depends on the context."

"So Lazarus didn't really die?"

"Right."

"And the rich man didn't really die?

"Right."

"But both of them died?"

"Right. But not really."

"Maybe we can talk about this another time." Said the First Elder."Next Thursday we will bring you the passages that prove eternal torment.”

“Next week,” said the Second Elder. “Same time.”

And they all shook hands and agreed to meet the following week.